Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)

[Amanda Lee]

Thank you.  I will, if you don't mind, cross post this to the ACB list
because there is some mis-information presented.  This is what I was looking
for ha!  How refreshing from a software developer's background and as a
blind user, how utterly like a breath of clean fresh air!

Amanda Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Ward" <tward at bright.net>
To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)


> Hi, let me come at this from another angle. In the Windows world a piece
of
> software is written, and the company then expects the screen reader
> manufacturer to modify their screen reader to support their app. Some such
> as Microslop include MSAA support to help the screen reader along after
the
> fact.
> In Gnome 2 we want to write the screen reader, and sstandardize all the
tool
> kits, documentation, and even the sample source code to clearly show
someone
> how to write an an accessible app, or to upgrade their app so that it
works
> with Gnopernicus. So rather than making the screen reader work with the
app
> we want the desktop and apps to work with the screen reader.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Amanda Lee <amanda at shellworld.net>
> To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)
>
>
> > So in broad terms, the features are equivalent to MSAA?  However,
there's
> a
> > cleaner interface than what MSAA provides because of the overal
> > standardization of what is already standardized in Linux???
> >
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thomas Ward" <tward at bright.net>
> > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)
> >
> >
> > > Hi. Wo, hold on here!
> > >
> > > Ok, let me explain what we are doing with Gnome to clarify things.
> First,
> > > the gtk tool kit, from which Gnome is written in,  is being rewritten
so
> > > that anyone using the standard controls, widgets, etc will build
> > accessible
> > > apps from the get go. Gnome has also been upgraded with speech hooks
> that
> > > will tell the screen reader what is being presented. Finally, Sun will
> be
> > > introducing something like the Java Access bridge so that Gnopernicus
> can
> > > handle Java applications under Linux. Does this clear things up?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Charles Crawford <ccrawford at acb.org>
> > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 2:27 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)
> > >
> > >
> > > >          Thanks.  I understand what you are saying.  Does this mean
> that
> > > > there would not be a fix for X-Windows like the MSAA in Windows?
> Would
> > we
> > > > need some kind of major off-screen model?
> > > >
> > > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > > >
> > > > At 11:09 AM 1/22/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > >Actually, being familiar with X myself, I'll answer this one.
> > > > >
> > > > >Xwindows, is a misnomer, in reality, it's just an X server, and
> > clients.
> > > The
> > > > >server draws to the screen, and sends user input to the clients.
The
> > > clients
> > > > >are the applications, the clients are usually on the same machine
as
> > the
> > > > >server, but they don't have to be.
> > > > >
> > > > >X itself is nothing more than a network protocol for sending
graphic
> > data
> > > to
> > > > >an X workstation, the X protocol has no provisions for button, text
> > box,
> > > or
> > > > >any widgets for that matter, it has: line, circle, filled circle,
> > > rectangle,
> > > > >filled rectangle, pixmap, etc...
> > > > >
> > > > >X also sends keyboard input and mouse click locations to the
> > applications
> > > > >that own the windows they occur in.  Beyond that, X's only other
> > > capability
> > > > >is to send text glyphs (rendered in a given font) back to
> applications
> > > that
> > > > >request them.
> > > > >
> > > > >As for widgets, and controls, and a nice unified API for writing
> > > programs,
> > > > >you need a "toolkit library". What's a toolkit library you ask? A
> > better
> > > > >question might be "what isn't a toolkit library?"
> > > > >First of all, there are a lot of toolkit libraries out there, some
> are
> > > very
> > > > >simple (Athena) while some have a full-blown callback API and can
be
> > > adjusted
> > > > >with themes (GTK, GTK+) and some are object-oriented C++ based APIs
> > (QT).
> > > > >They all basically do the same thing, provide
> > > functions/objects/structures to
> > > > >the application to draw typical GUI widgets, and send draw requests
> to
> > > the X
> > > > >server. Here's the hairy part, each toolkit has its own look and
> feel,
> > > has
> > > > >its own API, has its own conventions, and basically has its own
> > > everything.
> > > > >
> > > > >There's also the seperate window manager, which is simply another X
> > > client
> > > > >which registers a few special functions with the X server so it can
> get
> > > the
> > > > >location and owner of each window and add decorations and task
> > switching
> > > > >behavior. Some (most) window managers do more than this, but they
all
> > do
> > > at
> > > > >least this.
> > > > >
> > > > >Windows, on the other had, has the equivalent of the toolkit
library
> > and
> > > > >window manager built into the kernel (sort of) and most
applications
> > > either
> > > > >use that, or a custom one that is very similar to it.
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm sure this is incomplete, but I've already been wracking my
brain
> > for
> > > an
> > > > >hour over it, so I'll close here, feel free to ask questions or
tell
> me
> > > about
> > > > >parts that are unclear.
> > > > > >       Good to see you on this list.  I wonder if there are some
> > folks
> > > > > out there
> > > > > > familiar with XWindows to share the kind of navigation that goes
> on
> > > with
> > > > > > it?  I have no idea.  Is it the same icons and rdio buttons and
> all
> > of
> > > > > > tht?  How is it different than windows and how much more easy
> would
> > > access
> > > > > > be to develop in the XWindows environment?  These are important
> > > questions
> > > > > > to your point I imagine.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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>
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