New to LINUX

Jason Symes jsymes at netins.net
Thu Jan 3 12:01:32 EST 2002 

Its that instability, lack of consistency, freezing problems, and
restrictiveness that I'm trying to limit myself on by using linux. I can't
give up windows for everything, since plenty of businesses are still
running quite a bit of windows, but linux is popping up in many others
around my area. Also, my braille translator's a dos/windows app.
At 10:36 AM 1/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Interesting. I will be interested to hear how it goes for you on linux, 
>then. At least until GNOME access becomes available to us, our linux 
>access is command based, mostly, and somewhat menu based (ncurses).
>
>My first computer was the Apple 2. I was a bit of an expert in it. I hated 
>DOS but got good at it. Next, I went to OS/2 and eventually to Windows 95. 
>I did not find gui easy at all, though arrowing around was never the 
>reason. What I found hard was that there did not seem to be enough 
>consistancy as to what "tab" contained what fields and checkboxes. And 
>then there were so many dialogs that didn't talk, or didn't talk well in 
>the early days. On top of that, they would freeze hard several times a 
>day, and sometimes several times an hour. I tell you, I don't miss 
>rebooting like Windows people of yore had to reboot--especially those of 
>us twiddling with configurations. I eventually got comfortable with the 
>gui, but I still hate the instability and the restrictivness.
>
> On 
>Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
>
>> Windows was the first os I sat down and truly learned, and I've found it
>> vary easy. However, it's that power that windows lacks that I'm trying to
>> find in linux.
>> Well, I'm not much of a traveler, or I probably would have gone to some
>> place like Iowa or Minnesota.
>> At 06:26 PM 1/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Hi, Jason:
>> >
>> >Well, I don't think I agree that there's simplicity in Windows. Rather, I 
>> >think it's familiarity, which can make things seem simple and obvious, 
>> >when they're really not. Be that as it may, the result is the same.
>> >
>> >As for your college not teaching unix, too bad. Maybe it's time to change 
>> >schools? <grin> I hear the U. of Singapore and many places like it will 
>> >only have FREE software, but I don't really know that for a fact! <bigger 
>> >grin>
>> >
>> > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
>> >
>> >> You caught my drift. Ms's biggest plus is its simplicity, but its
apps have
>> >> been stripped of all power to make it that way.
>> >> The lingo is my toughest problem with linux. The rest seems to be
nothing
>> >> in comparison. Its a shame that my college no longer teaches any unix or
>> >> linux networking concepts, but everything's gone over to win 2k.
>> >> At 05:03 PM 1/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> >Jason:
>> >> >
>> >> >These are excellent points. I will incorporate them in the HOWTO. I
have 
>> >> >known for some time that lingo presents a barrier much greater than
the 
>> >> >actual doing of linux. But, I don't explain this in the HOWTO, and
it's 
>> >> >worth a sentence or two, and worth a pointer to the Linux for
DOS/Windows 
>> >> >Users. I'll add those.
>> >> >
>> >> >Also, I hear your point about the boot disk confusion--or at least I
>> think 
>> >> >I do. I think its confusion borne of so many options to choose
amongst, 
>> >> >where Windows really doesn't provide options anything like the way
linux 
>> >> >does. This is probably worth a few sentences as well. I think the
message 
>> >> >has to do with power and simplicity being opposites. Power means
options 
>> >> >and choices which are bound to be confusing at first. Simplicity, on
the 
>> >> >other hand, means few, if any choices. Did I get your drift?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I took a peak at the howto file, and, considering how I don't
understand
>> >> >> the lingo of linux as well as in windows, it seemed fairly straight
>> >> >> forward. The only problem I had was with the boot disks stuff, but
that
>> >> >> again is because I'm so used to the windows way of things.
>> >> >> At 11:04 AM 1/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Hi, Jason:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >What can I say to make my point in just a few words? The links you
>> found 
>> >> >> >are only pointers to the actual iso files--what we call symbolic
>> links. 
>> >> >> >They are the result of my attempts to devise a means of streamlining
>> the 
>> >> >> >distribution both of these iso images and of some of the critical
>> files 
>> >> >> >within them, without requiring too many people make changes every
time 
>> >> >> >there's a new release. I tell you this because what you don't see
>> looking 
>> >> >> >at these symbolic links is how big the files actually are that
you will
>> >> be 
>> >> >> >downloading. Essentially, each one is a packed CD ROM.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I don't say this to discourage you, only to inform you. In fact, if
>> >> you're 
>> >> >> >willing to work with a draft, you'll find a file called
>> >> HOWTO-INSTALL.html 
>> >> >> >in the redhat directory that answers your question about whether all
>> of 
>> >> >> >these files are necessary, and may answer many more questions
that you 
>> >> >> >have yet to ask. If you're willing to work with a prerelease draft,
>> take 
>> >> >> >a look at this file. Realize, please, that it isn't finished, and
>> not all 
>> >> >> >of the links work yet. But please do let me know if this HOWTO helps
>> you 
>> >> >> >understand what you need, where to get it, and how to go about
>> putting it 
>> >> >> >all together. That's what it's there for.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >To the rest of the folks on this list, you're welcome to look
there as 
>> >> >> >well--though I hadn't planned on going live quite so quickly!
<grin> 
>> >> >> >Please do not broadcast it or distribute it yet, though. Give me a
>> chance 
>> >> >> >to finish it and get all the links working. But, please do tell me
>> what 
>> >> >> >you think.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Happy New Year, everyone.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Ok, I think I found the files, but I want to be sure I download
the
>> >> correct
>> >> >> >> ones. In the red hat 7.2 directory, I found a folder named images,
>> which
>> >> >> >> contained the files disk1.iso, disk2.iso, docs.iso, srpms1.iso,
and
>> >> >> >> srpms2.iso. Are all of these required, or are some of these
extras?
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> At 02:30 AM 1/1/02 -0600, you wrote:
>> >> >> >> >Which file is the modified rh 7.2?
>> >> >> >> >tia
>> >> >> >> >At 02:10 AM 1/1/02 -0600, you wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>Thanks for the info. I'll consider rh.
>> >> >> >> >>At 03:03 AM 1/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>Hi all versions of Slackware 8.0 has speakup in them. Red
Hat 7.2
>> >> >> which is
>> >> >> >> >>>really good for newbies has a modified set of cd iso images at:
>> >> >> >> >>>ftp://linux-speakup.org/pub/speakup/disks/redhat/7.2/
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >> >>>From: Jason Symes <jsymes at netins.net>
>> >> >> >> >>>To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>> >> >> >> >>>Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:54 PM
>> >> >> >> >>>Subject: Re: New to LINUX
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> But that's a version of Slackware 8 without Speakup installed
>> >> aready,
>> >> >> >> >>>isn't
>> >> >> >> >>>> it? I'm asking about the version that Thomas mentioned
that had
>> >> >> Speakup
>> >> >> >> >>>> already installed.
>> >> >> >> >>>> At 10:45 PM 12/31/01 -0600, you wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-8.0/iso/install.iso
>> >> >> >> >>>> >Greg
>> >> >> >> >>>> >
>> >> >> >> >>>> >On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 09:29:41PM -0600, Jason Symes wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Hi Thomas.
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> While answering Chuck's question about trying zipspeak,
>> you made
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> statement:
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> That's possible. Many of us started on Zipspeak,
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >   and then moved on to big and full distributions.
>> >> However, if
>> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> >> >>>> want
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >to play with a full    distribution you might want to try
>> >> >> Slackware 8
>> >> >> >> >>>> which
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >comes with Speakup built    in, or Red hat 7.2 which
>> there is a
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >distribution of it modified on the Speakup    site.
>> >> >> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Where can I find this version of Slackware 8 that has
speakup
>> >> >> already
>> >> >> >> >>>built
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> in?
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> tia
>> >> >> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Jason Symes
>> >> >> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> >>>> >
>> >> >> >> >>>> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>>> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> >>>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> >>>> >
>> >> >> >> >>>> Jason Symes
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>>> Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> >>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>>Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>>Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> >>>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>Jason Symes
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> >>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Jason Symes
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Jason Symes
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >-- 
>> >> >> >	
>> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >> >				Technology Research and Development
>> >> >> >				Governmental Relations Group
>> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Chair, Accessibility SIG
>> >> >> >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>> >> >> >http://www.openebook.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
>> >> >> >Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
>> >> >> >King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
>> >> >> >http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Learn how to make accessible software at
>> >> >> >http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >> >Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Jason Symes
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >> 
>> >> >
>> >> >-- 
>> >> >	
>> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >				Technology Research and Development
>> >> >				Governmental Relations Group
>> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >
>> >> >Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>> >> >
>> >> >Chair, Accessibility SIG
>> >> >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>> >> >http://www.openebook.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >_______________________________________________
>> >> >Speakup mailing list
>> >> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> >
>> >> Jason Symes
>> >> 
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Speakup mailing list
>> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >> 
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >	
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Technology Research and Development
>> >				Governmental Relations Group
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>> >
>> >Chair, Accessibility SIG
>> >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>> >http://www.openebook.org
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Speakup mailing list
>> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> >
>> Jason Symes
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> 
>
>-- 
>	
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Technology Research and Development
>				Governmental Relations Group
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
>Chair, Accessibility SIG
>Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
>http://www.openebook.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Speakup mailing list
>Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
Jason Symes

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