New to LINUX

Janina Sajka janina at afb.net
Thu Jan 3 10:36:15 EST 2002 

Interesting. I will be interested to hear how it goes for you on linux, 
then. At least until GNOME access becomes available to us, our linux 
access is command based, mostly, and somewhat menu based (ncurses).

My first computer was the Apple 2. I was a bit of an expert in it. I hated 
DOS but got good at it. Next, I went to OS/2 and eventually to Windows 95. 
I did not find gui easy at all, though arrowing around was never the 
reason. What I found hard was that there did not seem to be enough 
consistancy as to what "tab" contained what fields and checkboxes. And 
then there were so many dialogs that didn't talk, or didn't talk well in 
the early days. On top of that, they would freeze hard several times a 
day, and sometimes several times an hour. I tell you, I don't miss 
rebooting like Windows people of yore had to reboot--especially those of 
us twiddling with configurations. I eventually got comfortable with the 
gui, but I still hate the instability and the restrictivness.

 On 
Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:

> Windows was the first os I sat down and truly learned, and I've found it
> vary easy. However, it's that power that windows lacks that I'm trying to
> find in linux.
> Well, I'm not much of a traveler, or I probably would have gone to some
> place like Iowa or Minnesota.
> At 06:26 PM 1/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hi, Jason:
> >
> >Well, I don't think I agree that there's simplicity in Windows. Rather, I 
> >think it's familiarity, which can make things seem simple and obvious, 
> >when they're really not. Be that as it may, the result is the same.
> >
> >As for your college not teaching unix, too bad. Maybe it's time to change 
> >schools? <grin> I hear the U. of Singapore and many places like it will 
> >only have FREE software, but I don't really know that for a fact! <bigger 
> >grin>
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
> >
> >> You caught my drift. Ms's biggest plus is its simplicity, but its apps have
> >> been stripped of all power to make it that way.
> >> The lingo is my toughest problem with linux. The rest seems to be nothing
> >> in comparison. Its a shame that my college no longer teaches any unix or
> >> linux networking concepts, but everything's gone over to win 2k.
> >> At 05:03 PM 1/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >Jason:
> >> >
> >> >These are excellent points. I will incorporate them in the HOWTO. I have 
> >> >known for some time that lingo presents a barrier much greater than the 
> >> >actual doing of linux. But, I don't explain this in the HOWTO, and it's 
> >> >worth a sentence or two, and worth a pointer to the Linux for DOS/Windows 
> >> >Users. I'll add those.
> >> >
> >> >Also, I hear your point about the boot disk confusion--or at least I
> think 
> >> >I do. I think its confusion borne of so many options to choose amongst, 
> >> >where Windows really doesn't provide options anything like the way linux 
> >> >does. This is probably worth a few sentences as well. I think the message 
> >> >has to do with power and simplicity being opposites. Power means options 
> >> >and choices which are bound to be confusing at first. Simplicity, on the 
> >> >other hand, means few, if any choices. Did I get your drift?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I took a peak at the howto file, and, considering how I don't understand
> >> >> the lingo of linux as well as in windows, it seemed fairly straight
> >> >> forward. The only problem I had was with the boot disks stuff, but that
> >> >> again is because I'm so used to the windows way of things.
> >> >> At 11:04 AM 1/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Hi, Jason:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >What can I say to make my point in just a few words? The links you
> found 
> >> >> >are only pointers to the actual iso files--what we call symbolic
> links. 
> >> >> >They are the result of my attempts to devise a means of streamlining
> the 
> >> >> >distribution both of these iso images and of some of the critical
> files 
> >> >> >within them, without requiring too many people make changes every time 
> >> >> >there's a new release. I tell you this because what you don't see
> looking 
> >> >> >at these symbolic links is how big the files actually are that you will
> >> be 
> >> >> >downloading. Essentially, each one is a packed CD ROM.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I don't say this to discourage you, only to inform you. In fact, if
> >> you're 
> >> >> >willing to work with a draft, you'll find a file called
> >> HOWTO-INSTALL.html 
> >> >> >in the redhat directory that answers your question about whether all
> of 
> >> >> >these files are necessary, and may answer many more questions that you 
> >> >> >have yet to ask. If you're willing to work with a prerelease draft,
> take 
> >> >> >a look at this file. Realize, please, that it isn't finished, and
> not all 
> >> >> >of the links work yet. But please do let me know if this HOWTO helps
> you 
> >> >> >understand what you need, where to get it, and how to go about
> putting it 
> >> >> >all together. That's what it's there for.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >To the rest of the folks on this list, you're welcome to look there as 
> >> >> >well--though I hadn't planned on going live quite so quickly! <grin> 
> >> >> >Please do not broadcast it or distribute it yet, though. Give me a
> chance 
> >> >> >to finish it and get all the links working. But, please do tell me
> what 
> >> >> >you think.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Happy New Year, everyone.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Jason Symes wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Ok, I think I found the files, but I want to be sure I download the
> >> correct
> >> >> >> ones. In the red hat 7.2 directory, I found a folder named images,
> which
> >> >> >> contained the files disk1.iso, disk2.iso, docs.iso, srpms1.iso, and
> >> >> >> srpms2.iso. Are all of these required, or are some of these extras?
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> At 02:30 AM 1/1/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >> >> >Which file is the modified rh 7.2?
> >> >> >> >tia
> >> >> >> >At 02:10 AM 1/1/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >> >> >>Thanks for the info. I'll consider rh.
> >> >> >> >>At 03:03 AM 1/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>Hi all versions of Slackware 8.0 has speakup in them. Red Hat 7.2
> >> >> which is
> >> >> >> >>>really good for newbies has a modified set of cd iso images at:
> >> >> >> >>>ftp://linux-speakup.org/pub/speakup/disks/redhat/7.2/
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> >>>From: Jason Symes <jsymes at netins.net>
> >> >> >> >>>To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> >> >> >> >>>Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:54 PM
> >> >> >> >>>Subject: Re: New to LINUX
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>> But that's a version of Slackware 8 without Speakup installed
> >> aready,
> >> >> >> >>>isn't
> >> >> >> >>>> it? I'm asking about the version that Thomas mentioned that had
> >> >> Speakup
> >> >> >> >>>> already installed.
> >> >> >> >>>> At 10:45 PM 12/31/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-8.0/iso/install.iso
> >> >> >> >>>> >Greg
> >> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >> >>>> >On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 09:29:41PM -0600, Jason Symes wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>> >> Hi Thomas.
> >> >> >> >>>> >> While answering Chuck's question about trying zipspeak,
> you made
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>>> >> statement:
> >> >> >> >>>> >> That's possible. Many of us started on Zipspeak,
> >> >> >> >>>> >> >   and then moved on to big and full distributions.
> >> However, if
> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> >>>> want
> >> >> >> >>>> >> >to play with a full    distribution you might want to try
> >> >> Slackware 8
> >> >> >> >>>> which
> >> >> >> >>>> >> >comes with Speakup built    in, or Red hat 7.2 which
> there is a
> >> >> >> >>>> >> >distribution of it modified on the Speakup    site.
> >> >> >> >>>> >>
> >> >> >> >>>> >> Where can I find this version of Slackware 8 that has speakup
> >> >> already
> >> >> >> >>>built
> >> >> >> >>>> >> in?
> >> >> >> >>>> >> tia
> >> >> >> >>>> >>
> >> >> >> >>>> >> Jason Symes
> >> >> >> >>>> >>
> >> >> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >>>> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> >>>> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >> >>>> >_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >>>> >Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> >>>> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> >>>> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >> >>>> Jason Symes
> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >>>> Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> >>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> >>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >>>Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> >>>Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> >>>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>Jason Symes
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >>Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> >>Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> >>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Jason Symes
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Jason Symes
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >-- 
> >> >> >	
> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >> >				Technology Research and Development
> >> >> >				Governmental Relations Group
> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Chair, Accessibility SIG
> >> >> >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> >> >> >http://www.openebook.org
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
> >> >> >Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
> >> >> >King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
> >> >> >http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Learn how to make accessible software at
> >> >> >http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >> >Speakup mailing list
> >> >> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> >
> >> >> Jason Symes
> >> >> 
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >> 
> >> >
> >> >-- 
> >> >	
> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >				Technology Research and Development
> >> >				Governmental Relations Group
> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >
> >> >Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >> >
> >> >Chair, Accessibility SIG
> >> >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> >> >http://www.openebook.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >Speakup mailing list
> >> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> >
> >> Jason Symes
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Speakup mailing list
> >> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >> 
> >
> >-- 
> >	
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Technology Research and Development
> >				Governmental Relations Group
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> >Chair, Accessibility SIG
> >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> >http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Speakup mailing list
> >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> >
> Jason Symes
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

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