speakup todo?

Sun Sep 16 18:50:17 EDT 2012

     Well, I'm a speakup user and I use NVDA on windows and it uses some 
similar keys than speakup to review the text. I don't need JAWS keys and 
if I need to choose
I prefer the actual situation.
El 16-09-2012 19:44, Littlefield, Tyler escribió:
> OK. so you want keys likeys like Jaws's keybindings to work. so lets 
> say I bind up arrow to caps+u, down arrow to caps+o. How exactly do 
> you want someone to uh, move up and down in the terminal now? Lets now 
> bind caps+j and caps+l to left and right, respectively. Awesome, now I 
> can't move around and edit parts of my command, this is great. Lets 
> set up key bindings for highlight tracking, shall we? Well snap, Jaws 
> doesn't appear to have a tracking option that I can copy that keybind 
> for, wo is me... I'll need to leave that one alone.
>
> Speakup works a lot differently than Jaws does. You have screen review 
> commands, but Jaws lets you move up and down left and right through 
> text presented in windows, edit boxes etc. Making it where the user 
> could move up and down around the screen with the arrow keys kind of 
> kills programs that use those keys, like the handy editors, for example.
> Since you want these key bindings, would you mind clarifying how you 
> expect this to work?
> On 9/16/2012 4:42 PM, Glenn wrote:
>> I have tried to get folks to switch to Linux, but it is difficult,
>> as people like what is familiar to them.
>> The situation on the other list, the Orca list I think, was that I am on
>> digest on that list, and I did not reply to the thread subject, I'm 
>> not sure
>> how to do that from digest mode, which on that instance, was 
>> regarding key
>> bindings in Orca, but I wrote a new thread with a similar subject 
>> line, and
>> some folks thought it had nothing to do with that subject on that list.
>> But yes, I am trying to get the Linux community to wake up to this need.
>> In fact, in Windows, the program Window Eyes finally smartened up and 
>> used
>> JFW key bindings.
>> It may be easy for someone who knows how to make new key bindings, 
>> but not
>> for a new user.
>> If it is really fairly easy to make a new set of key bindings, then why
>> doesn't someone just do it, and make it an option for new users, like 
>> Window
>> Eyes did?
>> Glenn
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jason Miller" <hobbgoblin79 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review 
>> system for
>> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> Let me start by this first. You've been on several lists, bitching and
>> complaining about everyone switching to JFW keybindings. The first time
>> I saw it, you went to the wrong list to complain about something not
>> sharing bindings with JFW that wasn't even the right list. I said it
>> there, adn I'll say it here again. If not having JFW bindings was going
>> to be a killer for the blind, then things like Orca, Speakup, Emacs,
>> Voice Over, along with *coughs* Window Eyes, and NVDA on Windows
>> wouldn't exist. To put your argument to a rest, if what you said were
>> true, then why are so many people switching away from jaws, just
>> speaking alone of windows, and going to NVDA or Window Eyes, let alone
>> those that are migrating to other *nix based systems? I don't know what
>> kind of personal crusade you are on, but from what I've seen, this is
>> nothing more than you trying to troll.
>>
>> Secondly, like I said, he's been on several lists complaining about no
>> one in the linux world using the JFW based keybindings. This
>> conversation could go on forever, but it would be just feeding a troll.
>> If everyone here has noticed, he's hijacked Tyler's thread, just to stir
>> up trouble. He seems to do that elsewhere on other Linux accessibility
>> lists, and when someone points out a valid argument, he seems to get
>> frustrated, and go away.
>>
>> *shrugs* if you've really taught computers to the blind, then you would
>> understand that they are willing to learn what works. Not everyone needs
>> the windows world, and not everyone wants to stay in that ecosystem. You
>> don't go to every list, start complaining about how things should be
>> like windows, and JAWS, otherwise like I've told you before, only JAWS
>> would exist, and there would be no other accessibility programs out
>> there. Basically it comes down to this, and this is why I am not too
>> sure about what you say about teaching those with vision impairments how
>> to use technology. You teach someone who doesn't know different
>> techniques, teach them different systems that would fit their needs, and
>> you let them decide. You don't force a single way onto them, and go
>> everywhere else that isn't of that way to stir up trouble.
>>
>> Anyway, end of my rant towards this guy.
>>
>> On 09/16/2012 05:51 PM, Glenn wrote:
>>> Actually, it is this attitude among the sighted, that keeps most
>>> technology
>>> from being made accessible to the Blind.
>>> Wow.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Alonzo Cuellar"<mariachiac at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Glenn"<glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review 
>>> system for
>>> Linux."<speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at 
>>> all.
>>> Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is 
>>> made.
>>> After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen
>>> readers work.
>>> I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn 
>>> it full
>>> force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll never
>>> expand your horizons.
>>> people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its not
>>> and
>>> it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to 
>>> explore,
>>> etc.
>>> I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my computer.
>>> That
>>> was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances 
>>> weather
>>> is be linux or mac.
>>> I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other
>>> operating
>>> systems.
>>> The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard
>>> commands
>>> is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can learn
>>> how
>>> to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person may
>>> have
>>> difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. 
>>> You can
>>> apply this to any situation.
>>> If we were to stop learning… Then we would never excel and stay 
>>> trapped in
>>> the mind frame that this or that is to hard.
>>> Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to 
>>> learn and
>>> thats where it might be a problem.
>>>
>>> Alonzo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn<glennervin at cableone.net>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows.
>>>> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard enough
>>>> time
>>>> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands.
>>>> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some 
>>>> degree, do
>>>> you
>>>> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings?
>>>> Only the techie types do that.
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler at tysdomain.com>
>>>> To: "Glenn"<glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review 
>>>> system for
>>>> Linux."<speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First it's
>>>> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different
>>>> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli.
>>>> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote:
>>>>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to 
>>>>> switch to
>>>>> JFW
>>>>> key mappings.
>>>>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily.
>>>>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word 
>>>>> Perfect key
>>>>> mappings.
>>>>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more 
>>>>> popular to
>>>>> screenreader users.
>>>>> Glenn
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler at tysdomain.com>
>>>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
>>>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM
>>>>> Subject: speakup todo?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all:
>>>>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that 
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can 
>>>>> note.
>>>>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I 
>>>>> figured
>>>>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious 
>>>>> then
>>>>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to 
>>>>> it.
>>>>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to
>>>>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the
>>>>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are dying
>>>>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console 
>>>>> directly. How
>>>>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access a
>>>>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the 
>>>>> access
>>>>> to the console we need?
>>>>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. It
>>>>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it works
>>>>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. 
>>>>> The
>>>>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also
>>>>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to 
>>>>> move
>>>>> up a line etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is 
>>>>> there a
>>>>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there 
>>>>> are
>>>>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of the
>>>>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, I'm
>>>>> game to start coding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not
>>>>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be
>>>>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and usually
>>>>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway.
>>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Ty
>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a 
>>>> fool; he
>>>> that
>>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
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