speakup todo?

Sun Sep 16 18:44:47 EDT 2012

OK. so you want keys likeys like Jaws's keybindings to work. so lets say 
I bind up arrow to caps+u, down arrow to caps+o. How exactly do you want 
someone to uh, move up and down in the terminal now? Lets now bind 
caps+j and caps+l to left and right, respectively. Awesome, now I can't 
move around and edit parts of my command, this is great. Lets set up key 
bindings for highlight tracking, shall we? Well snap, Jaws doesn't 
appear to have a tracking option that I can copy that keybind for, wo is 
me... I'll need to leave that one alone.

Speakup works a lot differently than Jaws does. You have screen review 
commands, but Jaws lets you move up and down left and right through text 
presented in windows, edit boxes etc. Making it where the user could 
move up and down around the screen with the arrow keys kind of kills 
programs that use those keys, like the handy editors, for example.
Since you want these key bindings, would you mind clarifying how you 
expect this to work?
On 9/16/2012 4:42 PM, Glenn wrote:
> I have tried to get folks to switch to Linux, but it is difficult,
> as people like what is familiar to them.
> The situation on the other list, the Orca list I think, was that I am on
> digest on that list, and I did not reply to the thread subject, I'm not sure
> how to do that from digest mode, which on that instance, was regarding key
> bindings in Orca, but I wrote a new thread with a similar subject line, and
> some folks thought it had nothing to do with that subject on that list.
> But yes, I am trying to get the Linux community to wake up to this need.
> In fact, in Windows, the program Window Eyes finally smartened up and used
> JFW key bindings.
> It may be easy for someone who knows how to make new key bindings, but not
> for a new user.
> If it is really fairly easy to make a new set of key bindings, then why
> doesn't someone just do it, and make it an option for new users, like Window
> Eyes did?
> Glenn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Miller" <hobbgoblin79 at gmail.com>
> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system for
> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>
>
> Hello.
>
> Let me start by this first. You've been on several lists, bitching and
> complaining about everyone switching to JFW keybindings. The first time
> I saw it, you went to the wrong list to complain about something not
> sharing bindings with JFW that wasn't even the right list. I said it
> there, adn I'll say it here again. If not having JFW bindings was going
> to be a killer for the blind, then things like Orca, Speakup, Emacs,
> Voice Over, along with *coughs* Window Eyes, and NVDA on Windows
> wouldn't exist. To put your argument to a rest, if what you said were
> true, then why are so many people switching away from jaws, just
> speaking alone of windows, and going to NVDA or Window Eyes, let alone
> those that are migrating to other *nix based systems? I don't know what
> kind of personal crusade you are on, but from what I've seen, this is
> nothing more than you trying to troll.
>
> Secondly, like I said, he's been on several lists complaining about no
> one in the linux world using the JFW based keybindings. This
> conversation could go on forever, but it would be just feeding a troll.
> If everyone here has noticed, he's hijacked Tyler's thread, just to stir
> up trouble. He seems to do that elsewhere on other Linux accessibility
> lists, and when someone points out a valid argument, he seems to get
> frustrated, and go away.
>
> *shrugs* if you've really taught computers to the blind, then you would
> understand that they are willing to learn what works. Not everyone needs
> the windows world, and not everyone wants to stay in that ecosystem. You
> don't go to every list, start complaining about how things should be
> like windows, and JAWS, otherwise like I've told you before, only JAWS
> would exist, and there would be no other accessibility programs out
> there. Basically it comes down to this, and this is why I am not too
> sure about what you say about teaching those with vision impairments how
> to use technology. You teach someone who doesn't know different
> techniques, teach them different systems that would fit their needs, and
> you let them decide. You don't force a single way onto them, and go
> everywhere else that isn't of that way to stir up trouble.
>
> Anyway, end of my rant towards this guy.
>
> On 09/16/2012 05:51 PM, Glenn wrote:
>> Actually, it is this attitude among the sighted, that keeps most
>> technology
>> from being made accessible to the Blind.
>> Wow.
>> Glenn
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alonzo Cuellar"<mariachiac at gmail.com>
>> To: "Glenn"<glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system for
>> Linux."<speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>
>>
>> I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at all.
>> Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is made.
>> After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen
>> readers work.
>> I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn it full
>> force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll never
>> expand your horizons.
>> people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its not
>> and
>> it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to explore,
>> etc.
>> I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my computer.
>> That
>> was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances weather
>> is be linux or mac.
>> I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other
>> operating
>> systems.
>> The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard
>> commands
>> is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can learn
>> how
>> to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person may
>> have
>> difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. You can
>> apply this to any situation.
>> If we were to stop learning… Then we would never excel and stay trapped in
>> the mind frame that this or that is to hard.
>> Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to learn and
>> thats where it might be a problem.
>>
>> Alonzo
>>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn<glennervin at cableone.net>  wrote:
>>
>>> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows.
>>> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard enough
>>> time
>>> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands.
>>> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some degree, do
>>> you
>>> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings?
>>> Only the techie types do that.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler at tysdomain.com>
>>> To: "Glenn"<glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system for
>>> Linux."<speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First it's
>>> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different
>>> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli.
>>> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote:
>>>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to switch to
>>>> JFW
>>>> key mappings.
>>>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily.
>>>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word Perfect key
>>>> mappings.
>>>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more popular to
>>>> screenreader users.
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler"<tyler at tysdomain.com>
>>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
>>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM
>>>> Subject: speakup todo?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all:
>>>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that I'd
>>>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can note.
>>>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I figured
>>>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious then
>>>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to it.
>>>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to
>>>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the
>>>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are dying
>>>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console directly. How
>>>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access a
>>>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the access
>>>> to the console we need?
>>>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. It
>>>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it works
>>>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. The
>>>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also
>>>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to move
>>>> up a line etc.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is there a
>>>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there are
>>>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of the
>>>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, I'm
>>>> game to start coding.
>>>>
>>>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not
>>>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be
>>>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and usually
>>>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway.
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.