speakup todo?

Sun Sep 16 18:41:08 EDT 2012

I don't get the point in your ramblings.
You are complaining about phones (all phones) not being acccessible. 
That's kind of how life goes. I don't need to learn a lot of unspoken 
commands to use my IPhone, you just flick around the screen. A basic 
user to text and make calls doesn't need to learn to much. I'm also 
blind, so well, using a camera isn't on my top 100 things to do with my 
phone. If I need a picture taken, I let someone take it and it's not off 
center and blurry and everything else.

Now, on to your OS comment. Do you currently use Linux with Speakup? 
Because this isn't something "less techy folks" are going to do. Yes, I 
would love to see Linux as a viable option to replace Windows for blind 
people, but it's not there and changing Speakups key bindings to work 
more like Jaws isn't going to get it there.
On 9/16/2012 4:33 PM, Glenn wrote:
> I am referring to the attitude, not the result.
> The attitude here is that people either have to do it this way, or not at
> all.
> We all owe a lot to mostly sighted programmers, and some Blind ones too, who
> wanted to make computers accessible to the Blind.
> Now that you are in, so to speak, why should you care if less techie folks
> get to use something other than windows?
> Some sighted folks think that it is nice if we can use a computer, but they
> don't care enough to make it happen for us.
> We see this in equipment like cell phones.
> Most people think that we all can learn a bunch of unspoken commands to use
> a cell phone.
> I can, but I sure don't wish to do that if I don't have to.
> So many folks, for example, will use a less functional phone like the Haven,
> because it is totally accessible, rather than having a phone with bluetooth
> or a camera.
> Now if phone makers cared enough to make all phones accessible like the
> Haven, then we could choose according to actual phone functions.
> Likewise, it would be nice if folks could try Linux based on its merits as
> an OS, but because they have invested a lot into learning JFW, and they will
> never change, because that is the path of less resistance.
> And like I mentioned before, unless someone is techie enough to care about
> it, the extra work involved is not worth it, because folks don't understand
> the benefits of an OS like Linux.
> Glenn
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system for
> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:12 PM
> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>
>
> No, htis isn't the attitude the sighted people have. Learning a new
> operating system requires just that, that you sit down and learn. Look
> at all the blind people jumping on the OSX band waggon and buying $1800
> shiny MacBooks. They learned those, and Voiceover's keys are nothing
> like Jaws's.
> On 9/16/2012 3:51 PM, Glenn wrote:
>> Actually, it is this attitude among the sighted, that keeps most
>> technology
>> from being made accessible to the Blind.
>> Wow.
>> Glenn
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alonzo Cuellar" <mariachiac at gmail.com>
>> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system for
>> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>
>>
>> I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at all.
>> Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is made.
>> After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen
>> readers work.
>> I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn it full
>> force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll never
>> expand your horizons.
>> people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its not
>> and
>> it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to explore,
>> etc.
>> I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my computer.
>> That
>> was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances weather
>> is be linux or mac.
>> I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other
>> operating
>> systems.
>> The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard
>> commands
>> is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can learn
>> how
>> to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person may
>> have
>> difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. You can
>> apply this to any situation.
>> If we were to stop learning… Then we would never excel and stay trapped in
>> the mind frame that this or that is to hard.
>> Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to learn and
>> thats where it might be a problem.
>>
>> Alonzo
>>
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn <glennervin at cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows.
>>> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard enough
>>> time
>>> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands.
>>> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some degree, do
>>> you
>>> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings?
>>> Only the techie types do that.
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
>>> To: "Glenn" <glennervin at gmail.com>; "Speakup is a screen review system
>>> for
>>> Linux." <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: speakup todo?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First it's
>>> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different
>>> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli.
>>> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote:
>>>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to switch to
>>>> JFW
>>>> key mappings.
>>>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily.
>>>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word Perfect key
>>>> mappings.
>>>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more popular to
>>>> screenreader users.
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" <tyler at tysdomain.com>
>>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
>>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM
>>>> Subject: speakup todo?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all:
>>>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that I'd
>>>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can note.
>>>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I figured
>>>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious then
>>>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to it.
>>>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to
>>>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the
>>>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are dying
>>>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console directly. How
>>>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access a
>>>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the access
>>>> to the console we need?
>>>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. It
>>>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it works
>>>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. The
>>>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also
>>>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to move
>>>> up a line etc.
>>>>
>>>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is there a
>>>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there are
>>>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of the
>>>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, I'm
>>>> game to start coding.
>>>>
>>>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not
>>>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be
>>>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and usually
>>>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway.
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he
>>> that
>>> dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Speakup mailing list
>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Speakup mailing list
>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>

-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.