Main advantages of SBL over Speakup
Pia
pmikeal at comcast.net
Thu Feb 11 19:25:33 EST 2010
Linux works on the Optiplex boxen we have at work. I can't speak for any
models of Optiplex we do not have though, but we have never ordered a Dell
that wouldn't support it. We have ordered computers that had hardware
that was too new without compiling our own kernels before. I just read
today that the new Red Hat is supposed to support the latest Intel
Hardware / CPUs. Ubuntu works withe the Core i7 and Xeon equivalent, but
not, um what are they called? The i9 I think? They don't work yet. You
are probably not going to want to order something that new anyway. I
would say that almost all of your Dell boxen should be just fine under
Linux as we have not had problems with the current offerings and have
ordered 3 or so of them in the last year that I have put Linux on for
work.
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Trevor Astrope wrote:
> Hi Butch,
>
> Check out the Dell Optiplex line. I'm not sure if all Optiplex models have a
> serial port, but there are some that do. It should be fine for XP, but Dell
> said linux is not supported on the Optiplex line. This doesn't mean that
> Linux won't install or work on these machines, but ymmv. John likely has more
> experience with linux on these machines and might be able to provide more
> info...
>
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Butch Bussen wrote:
>
>> A bit off topic, but can you tell me which Dell business machine has a
>> serial port? model? I need a better machine for xp, but I need at least
>> one and preferably two serial ports.
>> Thanks.
>> 73
>> Butch Bussen
>> wa0vjr
>> open Node 3148
>> Las Vegas
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, Trevor Astrope wrote:
>>
>>> John, what I said is there is no advantage to having speakup in the kernel
>>> if it cannot support serial synths on modern computers and I stand by my
>>> statement that most modern computers do not come with serial ports. I know
>>> there is a Dell business machine that does, but these are the exception,
>>> not the rule and are also much more expensive.
>>>
>>> Basically, my point is speakup needs to support external serial ports
>>> and/or usb serial ports going forward or it loses any advantage it has of
>>> being in the kernel. If software speech is the only option for the
>>> majority of computers, than there is really no point of speakup being in
>>> the kernel.
>>>
>>> Feel free to disagree, but I think my statements are accurate and you will
>>> find that over time you will find fewer and fewer machines with built-in
>>> serial ports, as usb was intended to replace rs232 serial ports and this
>>> is happening today, although I do agree it isn't totally complete.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2010, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just think you are over stating your case. I'm sure the speakup
>>>> developers would love to support USB. But your original comment was
>>>> that speakup doesn't support modern motherboards -- which is just
>>>> totally
>>>> untrue. You also said that having speakup in the kernel has "no
>>>> advantage". Also untrue. I don't have a problem with your offereing the
>>>> suggestion that speakup be modified to support USB hardware synths. I
>>>> just
>>>> think you shouldn't exaggerate the problems. After all, look at the
>>>> subject line of this thread, "Main advantages of SBL over Speakup." If
>>>> we're going to compare sbl and speakup, lets be fair about it.
>>>>
>>>> You made it sound like speakup is already obsolete. And that's just not
>>>> true. Really, it seems to me to be a fairly small niche you are in. We
>>>> both agree that most servers have serial ports, right? So your problem
>>>> is
>>>> that you have a desktop with no serial port but you have to have speech
>>>> right away during boot? Why can't you just use software speech on your
>>>> desktop? In fact, I'm unclear as to why it is so important to you that
>>>> the
>>>> workstations you support have hardware synth speech. As I said, all of
>>>> the
>>>> PCs in my department have serial ports (literally 100s of machines) but
>>>> when I have to do support, I just use software speech. I'm not going to
>>>> drag my hardware speech synth around with me unless I have to. Its so
>>>> much
>>>> easier just to grap a USB headset and fire up software speech.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, some years ago, I posted a message to this list about how you
>>>> could modify your udev rules to recognize when your USB headset is
>>>> plugged
>>>> into a machine and have it start software speech. Each USB device has a
>>>> unique serial number and you can write a udev rule to run a script to
>>>> start speech when a device with a specific serial number is plugged in.
>>>> So
>>>> its possible to sit down at a PC at the login prompt, plug in your USB
>>>> headset, and login with speech.
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Astrope" <astrope at tabbweb.com>
>>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux."
>>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:09 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Main advantages of SBL over Speakup
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John, yes I do manage servers and I do agree that having speakup in the
>>>> kernel is immensely important if you have a serial port and synth.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it is different where you are, but where I live, desktops with
>>>> serial ports are extremely rare. The only ones I managed to find were
>>>> some
>>>> low end Acers. I also found some business machines with serial ports,
>>>> but
>>>> they are twice the cost for about half the performance as a consumer
>>>> desktop machine and we don't buy them where I work.
>>>>
>>>> Like Kelly mentioned earlier today, I also do not install speakup in the
>>>> kernels of the servers I manage, but in the machine I use to manage the
>>>> servers.
>>>>
>>>> So, I respectfully disagree with you about the availability of serial
>>>> ports in modern desktop machines and I stand by my statement that
>>>> speakup
>>>> as a kernel-level speech system will become less relevant over time
>>>> unless
>>>> it can support external serial ports and usb serial ports. In my
>>>> opinion,
>>>> this is where speakup development should be focused, as more and more
>>>> people will face this issue as they upgrade their machines. But I am not
>>>> a
>>>> speakup developer, so I have no influence on the direction it takes. I
>>>> can
>>>> only offer my opinion, which I have stated several times on this list
>>>> and
>>>> I can only hope that speakup developers agree with it and take up the
>>>> challenge.
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, I do have a job to do and I will need to decide whether
>>>> I
>>>> continue using speakup with software synth, which will make my job more
>>>> difficult or use something else like orca or a mac, which still won't
>>>> solve the problem of having access to early kernel messages, but may
>>>> give
>>>> me more flexability going forward.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Well, perhaps its a minor point but plenty of modern computers have >
>>>> serial
>>>> > ports. I've never seen a server that didn't have a serial port. In
>>>> fact,
>>>> > except for laptops, I have yet to see a computer that doesn't have a >
>>>> serial
>>>> > port. That includes the 200 or so desktop units we have where I work.
>>>> > Even
>>>> > the machine I built myself has a serial port.
>>>> > > It certainly is a huge over statement to say that having speakup in
>>>> the
>>>> > kernel has no advantage. If you manage servers like I do, having >
>>>> speakup in
>>>> > the kernel is just about the most important thing there is for a
>>>> screen
>>>> > reader. I don't really care that much about what happens after the >
>>>> machine is
>>>> > booted. About the only time I need a run time screen reader is if >
>>>> something
>>>> > is wrong with networking. But mostly, I can admin these machines >
>>>> remotely
>>>> > after they boot.
>>>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Astrope" >
>>>> <astrope at tabbweb.com>
>>>> > To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >
>>>> <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
>>>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:09 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: Main advantages of SBL over Speakup
>>>> > > > Samuel, do you mean there is no kernel convention for accessing
>>>> serial
>>>> > ports or there is no speakup support for accessing serial ports >
>>>> according
>>>> > to kernel conventions?
>>>> > > It would be really great if speakup could use ttyS# devices, so
>>>> speakup
>>>> > would work with modern motherboards that do not have built-in serial
>>>> > ports. The way I see it is speakup can only use software speech on >
>>>> modern
>>>> > computers, so unless it can access external serial ports or usb serial
>>>> > ports, there really is no advantage to speakup being in the kernel so
>>>> > far
>>>> > as I can tell...
>>>> > > On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>>>> > > > Bill Cox, le Tue 09 Feb 2010 14:23:25 -0500, a écrit :
>>>> > > > I hear that it doesn't follow kernel
>>>> > > > programming conventions, for example in how it interfaces to the
>>>> COM
>>>> > > > ports.
>>>> > > > > Yes, because no such thing exists (yet).
>>>> > > > > Samuel
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > Speakup mailing list
>>>> > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>> > > > > > > > >
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > > Speakup mailing list
>>>> > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Speakup mailing list
>>>> > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>> > >
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Speakup mailing list
>>>> > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> Speakup mailing list
>>>> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
>>>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>>>>
>>>>
>
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