list noise (was Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for the blind borrows a page from Napster)

[Dawes, Stephen]

Chris 

I am the one responsible for introducing this thread to the list. 
If you want to point your finger of blame for straying of topic, point it directly at me.
However, I will say that in reading through your rant, I couldn't help but notice, that you haven't learned all that you said you have. "... I've spent a great deal of time teaching myself how to learn. 
For me, this means learning to ask questions in a way ..." 
I suggest that you go back to the start of this thread,, read the initial post, and listen to what it says. You will here, 
"Although this is a little off topic, I felt that it kind of fit in with the latest talk about Free Programming Books."

"So what is the lesson here?" You ask Chris. Well, part of asking good questions is listening to the answers. In the case of this thread, I provided you with the solution long before you went on your tirade. You should of heard "a little off topic" and from that point on when you heard the subject line "USA: Online book-sharing service for the blind borrows a page from Napster)" you automatically deleted the message without reading it. This would greatly speed up the time that it takes to read through your Email and reduce your frustration levels.

As to the subject matter of the list, why not go to the speakup home page, and read it carefully to find out what the group is really about. 
http://linux-speakup.org

There, I have said my bit. Oh yeah, Chris, if you don't like the messages that I post to the list, write yourself a filter to block all messages from me, and you won't hurt my feelings if you do! You can post a rebuttal if you like, but this all I am going to write on your unnecessary attack.

Steve Dawes
PH:  (403) 268-5527. 
Mailto:  sdawes at gov.calgary.ab.ca 



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Peterson [mailto:capeterson at visi.com]
Sent: 2002 March 13 1:02 PM
To: speakup at braille.uwo.ca
Subject: list noise (was Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for
the blind borrows a page from Napster)


Is this a list about linux or a list about speakup?  If its a list about
Linux, I don't need it.  I was spacifically interested in learning about
speakup, and the other projects associated with it.  I thought this was the
place to go for that.

I thought this, because there are a number of other lists where this
discussion might be appropriate.  I've pasted in some info about them incase
you weren't aware of them.
The BLINUX Mailing Lists
blinux-announce
Topic: announcements dealing with blind support under Linux (new software,
conferences etc.).
Moderated list, no noise.
Low number of posts.
If you want to stay in contact with BLINUX.
blinux-develop
Topic: software development enabling the Linux user who is blind.

This might be a place to go for a linux developer to write an unpack util
for bookshare.

Unmoderated list, currently really low traffic...

blinux-list
Topic: themes which contain the words Linux. and blind. For details please
read the

This might be a good place for this discussion.

blinux-FAQ.
Off topic: general Linux questions.
Unmoderated list, high traffic - high noise.
Postings to blinux-announce will be posted here.

This might also be a good place for this discussion.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but there are a lot of us who
receive hundreds, if not thousands, of e-mails every day and we need to be
able to go through them quickly.  Thats why there isn't just a general
mailing list that the entire world is on.  It would be kaos.  This is
becoming kaos and I'm sure its not something Kirk has time to deal with and
nobody is saying anything about it except me.

Also, addressing the issue of starting a project with everybody in mind, let
me tell you right now that it isn't possible.  For one thing, to please
everybody would mean that you'd never get off-the-ground.  What about those
people who are using some other Unix-like OS such as FreeBSD?  What about
those using dos?  Or a Braille N Speak?  Or an apple II?  Or a Makintosh?
Or a Comodor 64?  Or an Amiga?  Or an Atari?  How about a Vax? (I do that at
school once in a while)...  The list goes on for ever and ever.  Just
because you're vocal about Linux doesn't mean that it should be a priority.
The fact is, though, that it appears to be a priority.  So, why are you
wining about it?  They're not trying to retrofit as you're referring to it.
And, I get the distinct impression that you have very little knowledge of
software development or web design.

Btw, I've gone and read your web page and what I see there seems to varify
this.  This isn't a big deal and it doesn't mean that you don't have
valuable input.  However, it does mean that there are things about the
process that you don't fully understand.  I'm trying to help to explain some
of them to you so you might be able to restructure your input to be of help
to those in charge of the project.

This isn't the same as adding a wheelchair ramp to a building that wasn't
designed to have one.  Personally, I know how that can fail badly.  Writing
software to support another OS isn't the same thing at all.  It could be,
though, if someone without the right experience tried to do it.  You might
get something like Word Perfect for Linux was.  That would be bad...  I
think that is probably why they're trying to be careful about getting it
done right.

Regarding the web site.  Your assuming that the web site was inaccessible
because it had a message about IE 5.5 was the wrong approach.  It would've
been more helpful to ignore that message and determine if the site was
really accessible, or not.  Then you could go to the webmaster and explain
why that message was wrong, or what you found to be broken so that he/she
could fix the problem.  I see, though, that you didn't even try before you
complained.  Why should someone give you any credibility if you don't have
any evidence to support your case?

I see that you're a teacher.  What is needed, here, is for you to teach
those involved how to make things better.  Just complaining with no
direction is not helpful to them.  It would be like a student constantly
saying "I don't get it", without explaining what they don't understand.  You
have to go through it over and over again, trying to figure out how to
explain it in a way that your student will understand.  This is frustrating
for you and for the student.  In the sam way, this discussion is frustrating
to me, and to the rest of the list that hasn't participated in it.

So far, I've counted four participants in this thread.  Since I know there
are more than four people on the list, I suggest that the discussion might
not be appropriate here.  Still, I am not a moderator and have no authority
to make you move.  Its just a suggestion.

Now, let me explain some things about myself that may give me some
particular credibility, or not...  I am a college student.  I've spent a
great deal of time teaching myself how to learn.  For me, this means
learning to ask questions in a way that clearly explains how to teach a
sighted professor how to teach me.