anti-word

Sun Jan 13 17:47:38 EST 2002

Yes, thoes goals are just it, I try to do them all at once together. I am not a submissive individual by nature. 
Also, I know this is going in a circle, but how is the unenlightened person supposed to reach out for enlightenment if that person doesn't know there is something enlightening to reach out for?
It is also worth noting that you, Janina, Amanda Kirk W. and I along with everyone else are entitled to our ownopinions which this discussion is not meant to change, only to objectively focus on what is behind the opinion and why and if it makes sense.
Greg

On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 03:24:23PM -0500, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:
> Hmmmm - Seems like you are saying you often have two goals: (1)
> get your own work done, and (2) enlighten somebody and change the
> world. In that case I guess you should ask your professors
> etcetera to do those conversions. I guess I would defer the
> crusading for another time and concentrate on goal #1, but that
> is only my own not so humble opinion.
> 
> Seems to me that enlightenment works best when the enlightennee
> reaches out for it. For instance, if the professor etcetera
> should ask about the process of accessing his MS word goodies,
> then of course I would jump on the opportunity to outline what I
> must do to decode the damn thing to make it readable. If he then
> offers to save me the trouble next time, again I would jump at
> the offer and encourage him. But for me, I guess if I can get the
> conversion done with no fuss or muss, I would just do it and get
> on with life.
> 
> Just an old man's two cents worth. (and also a blind
> professor's).
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:
> 
> > I'm certain that most of us suck it up and accept it but given the
> > opportunity to enlighten someone, I do and many times they find other uses
> > as well for themselves.  So it's not always about acocmodating our
> > individual needs as persons who are blind.
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Charles Hallenbeck" <chuckh at mhonline.net>
> > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: anti-word
> >
> >
> > > I do not understand why you do not just accept what he is ready
> > > to send you, since you can easily do the conversion yourself. Why
> > > expect him to do it?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think that if I told him to just save it as a text file, he would've
> > been even more confused, unless he was right in front of his monitor able to
> > pull up the save as dialogue right there which he was not at the time.
> > > > Besides, I don't care how they save it, as long as I get the format I
> > asked for.
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 01:52:47PM -0500, Amanda Lee wrote:
> > > > > You are correct.  However, all that you needed to do was to point out
> > to
> > > > > your professor that he could easily use "Save As" from the pulldown
> > menu and
> > > > > save his documents for mailing to you in text.  I frequenlty do this
> > when I
> > > > > receive Word documents as I will today for two courses I'm taking this
> > week
> > > > > on Networks and Advanced TCP/IP.  These I will download to my
> > notetaker as
> > > > > they are smaller and there is a book reader function in my notetaker
> > and so
> > > > > I can read these files while I'm in the taxi going to work or
> > whatever.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that the Universities are at the root of much of this but ...
> > they
> > > > > really don't need to know nor do anything other than press the right
> > buttons
> > > > > and click on the desired choice.
> > > > >
> > > > > Amanda Lee
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1 at uic.edu>
> > > > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:24 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: anti-word
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, I do. However, you seem to be missing the point I'm trying to
> > get
> > > > > across here. So, let me give you an example.
> > > > > > A professor of mine was handing out something that he had written
> > for the
> > > > > class. Since I knew that he had written it by himself recently, I
> > asked if
> > > > > he could e-mail me a plain text file instead, so I wouldn't need to
> > mess
> > > > > with scannning the handout. His answer to me was: "you mean a word
> > > > > document?" I said "no, I mean a .txt file, a plain ASCII text file."
> > He was
> > > > > still confused, so I said, "like the files that you create with
> > notepad." He
> > > > > said "oh, ok."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My point is as it was before. If all they know about their computer
> > is how
> > > > > to turn it on and off, then how are they supposed to know about other
> > > > > platforms if they don't even know for sure what a text file?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If some of you on this list want to blame the ignorant professor,
> > then
> > > > > maybe you should blame universities, employers, and the way we learn
> > and
> > > > > work today. Universities and employers are the ones today who tell you
> > they
> > > > > want your papers in 12 point font, and formatted this way or that.
> > Now, how
> > > > > are we supposed to achieve that in something like notepad/emacs/pico?
> > And if
> > > > > someone else is wondering how the hell this guy became a professor
> > without
> > > > > knowing crap about what kinds of files he could produce on his
> > computer,
> > > > > then that is a new question to examine the answer to.
> > > > > > Greg
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:29:50PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > > > Gregory, I keep telling you this answer, but there's some part of
> > it
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > you seem to still miss. What part is that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They don't need to know a damm thing to retrieve either a text doc
> > (no
> > > > > > > formatting), or an html doc (much formatting).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They need know nothing special in order to do that. Do you
> > understand
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > yet?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And how do you expect them to know about the other platforms if
> > all
> > > > > they know about their windows computer is how to turn it on and off?
> > > > > > > > Greg
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:17:03PM -0500, Charles Crawford
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hello Amanda, Janina and other interested listers,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >          Well, looks like the world of advocacy is impinging
> > on
> > > > > planet
> > > > > > > > > Linux.  It is correct to point out that in the ideal there
> > should
> > > > > not be a
> > > > > > > > > word processing standard imposed by a company, but as we all
> > know,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > sender of a word file getting a text file back might not see
> > the
> > > > > world in
> > > > > > > > > the same way.  Don't you just hate it when that happens.
> > Smile.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >          I guess my view is that if word users want to
> > communicate
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > those who don't use word, then they have to adjust to the
> > realities
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > other computer platforms.  Consumer choice still has it's
> > place!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -- Charlie Crawford.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At 11:09 AM 01/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >Amen! to that Janina!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Amanda
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina at afb.net>
> > > > > > > > > >To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 11:06 AM
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: anti-word
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes and if a word document is sent to you for your input
> > and
> > > > > editing,
> > > > > > > > > >I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > sure the original party would expect the thing to come
> > back in
> > > > > Word
> > > > > > > > > >format
> > > > > > > > > > > > along with the built-in formatting, styles and such.
> > Some of
> > > > > this whole
> > > > > > > > > > > > anti Word sounds arogant to me.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I rather think it arrogant to presume everyone wants and
> > reads
> > > > > Word. I
> > > > > > > > > > > regard it as arrogant to presume we all pay tribute to
> > > > > Microsoft. I
> > > > > > > > > > > further regard it arrogant to treat a proprietary,
> > > > > non-consensus, file
> > > > > > > > > > > format as some kind of standard.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > >Speakup mailing list
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> > > > > > > > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
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> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Email: janina at afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
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> > > >
> > >
> > > *<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> > > Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> > > The Moon is New
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
> 
> *<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*<<<=-=>>>*
> Visit me at http://www.mhonline.net/~chuckh
> The Moon is New
> 
> 
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