Why I can't recommend Arch or Gentoo

John G Heim jheim at math.wisc.edu
Tue Sep 22 16:08:59 EDT 2015 

I am going to guess that you didn't really intend to ask me why a 
developer can't be all things to all people. That, obviously, would be 
impossible. But going on what I take to be the intent of your question, 
I'm going to say that we all need to keep in mind that the developers 
are volunteers. They have a right to decide for themselves what the best 
use of their time is.

You say, "Imagine a person who really needed braille being told that the 
developers cannot be all things to all people" as if that is obviously 
wrong. But it's not. It would depend on how hard it is to include 
braille support.

An ethical developer does his best to listen to constructive criticism. 
He does his best not to exclude anyone. But there is a nearly infinite 
call on his time. I am guessing you haven't gotten into volunteering as 
a developer, right? There is no limit to the number of requests you'll 
get.  No matter how hard you work, someone will ask for more. In fact, 
I'd say the better job you do, the more likely it is that you'll be 
asked for more.








On 09/22/2015 10:39 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Why not?
> The images already exist.
> The usb stick  booting issue is an even greater reason to keep the cd
> option around.
>
> i will give you another example.
> I am not a braille user, and if one  follows the numbers most
> individuals experiencing  sight loss are not using braille either.
> Less than 8% or so are using braille.
> However I would guess this flavor of Linux  is designed to work with
> braille, even if the majority of its users in theory   might not use it,
> or given the expense of a display, might not have access to it.
> Factor in those individuals who use speech, but not braille, and who not
> experience sight loss, but have a print disability..like dyslexia.
> Given cd roms are far more common, and the majority of the computing
> population  who might desire accessibility might find one, how  are the
> developers  serving the majority by not keeping this  option available?
> Imagine a person who really needed braille being told that the
> developers cannot be all things to all people?
> Just a theoretical comparison.
> You serve more people  in theory by keeping the cd images as an option
> than not if that makes sense.
> Again Just my thoughts,
> Karen
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, John G Heim wrote:
>
>> Good point. I'd say perhaps that the  real problem wouldn't be that
>> these machines have CD-ROM drives but rather  that a lot of older
>> machines won't boot from a USB stick.  My scanner machine is like
>> that. I have a linux machine with an ISA hardware speech synth and a
>> SCSI flatbed scanner attached and it won't boot from a thumb drive.  I
>> would hate to give up that machine.
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I think it is reasonable for the developers of
>> talking arch to say that they can't be all things to all people. You
>> will just have to use another flavor of linux.
>>
>>
>> On 09/22/2015 09:07 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>>  Just an aside on the cd media  issue.
>>>  Perhaps you have not considered that Linux is not simply a north
>>>  American effort.  additionally even in North America, a person just
>>>  starting out with  Linux might get their hardware second hand.  for
>>>  example from any of the many freecycle groups around the globe.
>>>  Those machines will still use cds, which is why they are second hand.
>>>  You can  still purchase blank cd media as well.
>>>  So do you really want to prevent a person from trying this distribution
>>>  if they are starting at the bottom based on the thinking of those who
>>>  have used it for a while?
>>>  I am simply speaking in general here.  If I were making this
>>> decision, I
>>>  would keep a cd simply because  there can still be an audience for it.
>>>  Just my totally from the sidelines thought.
>>>  Karen
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Tue, 22 Sep 2015, Tony Baechler wrote:
>>>
>>> >  I'm not going to quote Kyle's very long reply here, but I'll address
>>> >  the highlights:
>>> > >  1. No, I wasn't complaining.  I was simply pointing out
>>> observations.
>>> >  I apologize if it came across as complaining, but I tried to keep
>>> >  things as unbiased as possible.
>>> > >  2. My live CD is meant as a rescue CD since there currently isn't a
>>> >  Debian rescue CD, let alone a talking one.  One can install it to a
>>> >  hard drive if they wish, but that's not the purpose.  As I also
>>> >  mentioned but you failed to address, Debian is eventually going to
>>> get
>>> >  this fixed and it will talk, so there will be no need for my CD.
>>> > >  3. I was not complaining about or requesting CD media.  Some people
>>> >  have mentioned this and older machines might not have DVD readers.
>>> >  That's it. Personally, I agree with you that CD media is probably no
>>> >  longer necessary.
>>> >   My live CD is at the max of 700 MB now and is still missing packages
>>> >  I want to add.  I'm faced with the choice of freezing development or
>>> >  growing to DVD media.
>>> > >  No, I won't join your IRC channel and no, I won't bother with the
>>> >  sound card issue.  It is a Sound Blaster Audigy and the issue has
>>> been
>>> >  fixed in Debian, so borrow their ALSA configuration.  I did read the
>>> >  blog before downloading the CD image several months back.
>>> Eventually,
>>> >  I'll take another look at Arch, but not for a while.
>>> > >  Finally, not once did I say Arch is bad or what you're doing is
>>> bad.
>>> >  I have suggested Talking Arch a few times, but people weren't
>>> >  interested.  For the few people who only want the console for
>>> whatever
>>> >  reason, Arch is a good alternative and I didn't say otherwise.  I
>>> >  simply pointed out why I personally can't recommend it.  I look at
>>> >  several issues, such as what I previously mentioned.  There is no
>>> >  public bug tracker specific to Talking Arch, there are only two
>>> >  developers, support email didn't get answered, etc.
>>> >   That is understandable given the volunteer nature of the project,
>>> but
>>> >  does unfortunately mean I can't recommend it to the masses.  I'm
>>> never
>>> >  close-minded, so when you feel this issues have been addressed,
>>> please
>>> >  post here or contact me and I'll take another look.
>>> > >  _______________________________________________
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>>> > >
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>>
>> --
>> John Heim, jheim at math.wisc.edu, skype:john.g.heim
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-- 
John Heim, jheim at math.wisc.edu, skype:john.g.heim

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