Off-topic: Yahoo registration inaccessible to all blind us

[David Poehlman]

send it to tiff and ocr it is all it should take unless they've done
someting fancy to it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Holmes" <steve at holmesgrown.com>
To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Off-topic: Yahoo registration inaccessible to all blind us


I wonder how long it will take some script kiddies to decode the picture
image and type back the proper response? Kinda like a mini OCR to
extract
the real meaning and type it back.  Then what good did that tool do to
help yahoo? I got a feeling that process adversely impacts more people
than it does to stop.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Amanda Lee wrote:

> Yes, absolutely, they have just slapped a big ole bandaid on top of a
> festering wound!  Until they deal with root cause, those who really
want
> to rain on their parade will continue to make live difficult.  I'm not
> certain they can stop spammers but YOu'd think they'd have sense
enough to
> prevent no more than so many registrations from one IP address in a
given
> period of time for more than just spam.  Of  course a more cumbersome
> acknowledgement process may help those spammers who will happily
automate
> anything if they want it that badly!  I'm certain that many many other
> measures are possible if anybody with S**! for brains puts some gray
> matter to use!
>
> Amanda Lee
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, David Poehlman wrote:
>
> > how much has it actually cut down on spam?  the bots could still
collect
> > the addresses and some humans can still crank out sign ups quickly
so
> > the spam truck keeps delivering.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda at shellworld.net>
> > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 1:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: Off-topic: Yahoo registration inaccessible to all blind
> > users
> >
> >
> > Yes I do however, I still can think of other methods for avoiding
this
> > sort of thing and to deny persons who are print disabled access is
still
> > absolute stupidity and I won't back down on this.  Have these idiots
> > ever
> > heard of setting up limits?  Have they heard of limiting the number
of
> > access, number of registrations, I probably could type in pages
here.
> > They are really being very short-sighted as to dealing with the real
> > problem and so their solution is to barr everyone when I'd say that
only
> > a
> > few created this situation in the first place.
> >
> > I feel their pain but I bet you this won't stop abuse.
> >
> > Amanda Lee
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> >
> > > Amanda, it is not only about mailing lists. It also has to do with
the
> > fact
> > > that several "bad people" decided to perform, say, 1000 automatic
> > > registrations at a time. They would like to register 1000 Email
> > accounts on
> > > Yahoo. Do you see any implications?
> > > Victor
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda at shellworld.net>
> > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:25 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Off-topic: Yahoo registration inaccessible to all
blind
> > users
> > >
> > >
> > > > A text only interface of course!  Wonder how they are serving
> > Wireless
> > > > Phone and PDA users?  These devices typically can't handle a lot
of
> > high
> > > > resolution graphics and junk!  Bessides, what the hell! is so
damn!
> > secure
> > > > about a stupid email list?  If the FBI wants an Email list I
daresay
> > > > they're not going to go to Yahoo dot bomb to get one.  This is
just
> > a
> > > > stupid excuse for not wanting to think in any different
direction
> > than
> > > > stupidity.  Many sites have secure and not secured options for
doing
> > > > anything from ordering merchandise to signing up for
newsletters.
> > > >
> > > > Amanda Lee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What would you suggest instead of just complaining?
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Vic
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Steve Holmes" <steve at holmesgrown.com>
> > > > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 7:01 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Off-topic: Yahoo registration inaccessible to all
> > blind
> > > users
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > That's our whole point! If this kind of shit is used with
Yahoo,
> > > what's to
> > > > > > stop other services from using that garbage in the name of
> > tighter
> > > > > > security? It reminds me of some products introduced some
years
> > back
> > > that
> > > > > > would play some kind of hand-eye cordination game with the
user
> > to
> > > prove
> > > > > > it is who he says he is to connect to the local dial-up
network
> > at
> > > work.
> > > > > > thank God, this stuff was never implemented at my work but
they
> > did
> > > talk
> > > > > > about it briefly til I talked them out of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A web site or application should *NEVER* *NEVER* use bit
mapped
> > text
> > > that
> > > > > > cannot be read by any adaptive screen reader products!  The
only
> > good
> > > > > > thing about that crap was those banner ads we could never
read.
> > We
> > > didn't
> > > > > > see them nor hear them so they didn't bother us and we never
> > clicked
> > > > > > them:).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Victor Tsaran wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > There is really nothing Yahoo can do for you in this case.
> > Unless
> > > you
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > some ideas on how the subscription process can be changed,
> > send your
> > > > > > > suggestion to them. From the programming point of view,
there
> > is
> > > nothing
> > > > > > > they can do to better the situation. I know it sounds
harsh,
> > but
> > > there
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > not much else to say. No kind of alt tag or picture
> > description can
> > > be
> > > > > > > employed to make the "word" accessible.
> > > > > > > Vic
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Geoff Shang" <gshang at uq.net.au>
> > > > > > > To: <blindcast at yahoogroups.com>; <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>;
> > > > > > > <acbri-forum at acbradio.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:23 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Off-topic: Yahoo registration inaccessible to all
> > blind
> > > users
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is blatently off-topic.  If you're not interested,
hit
> > > delete.
> > > > > I'd
> > > > > > > > suggest not discussing it on list unless the moderator
deems
> > it
> > > > > on-topic,
> > > > > > > > but that's obviously not for me to say.  If you care at
all,
> > > please
> > > > > feel
> > > > > > > > free to spread this around.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is apparently now impossible for a blind or low
vision
> > person
> > > to
> > > > > > > > independantly register with yahoogroups, no matter what
> > browser
> > > they
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > using.  Yahoogroups has implemented a security feature
to
> > stop
> > > > > automated
> > > > > > > > programs from spuriously registering yahoo accounts.
> > > Unfortunately,
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > >  preventing blind people from registering also ... and
they
> > know
> > > it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What they've done is to implement a system where a word
is
> > printed
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > screen as a graphic.  You have to correctly enter this
word
> > into
> > > the
> > > > > > > > sign-up form before you can register.  This is meant to
> > prove that
> > > > > it's a
> > > > > > > > human doing the registration, but all it does prove is
that
> > it's a
> > > > > sighted
> > > > > > > > person able to read print that's doing the registration.
> > They
> > > have a
> > > > > link
> > > > > > > > to click if you can't see the word, and this is what
that
> > page
> > > says:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    What is Word Verification?
> > > > > > > >    Visually impaired or blind users: We can help you
> > register. So
> > > that
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > >    customer care representative can contact you, please
> > provide
> > > your
> > > > > > > >    phone number in addition to your required email
address
> > when
> > > you
> > > > > > > >    contact us by pasting this URL into your browser:
> > > > > > > >    http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/edit/cgi_access
> > > > > > > >    By entering the word you see in the box, you help
Yahoo!
> > > prevent
> > > > > > > >    automated registrations. Doing this reduces system
loads
> > and
> > > > > ensures
> > > > > > > >    better performance of Yahoo! services.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    If no image appears, please make sure your browser is
set
> > to
> > > > > display
> > > > > > > >    images and try again. If you are not sure what the
word
> > is,
> > > make
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > >    best guess. If you guess incorrectly, you will have
an
> > > opportunity
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >    enter a different word on the next screen.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is pretty damning.  They are conceeding that they
know
> > it's
> > > > > > > > inaccessibal to blind people and expect me as a blind
person
> > to
> > > hand
> > > > > over
> > > > > > > > my phone number so that they can walk me through the
> > registration
> > > > > process.
> > > > > > > > Quite aside from the fact that I do not want to give out
my
> > phone
> > > > > number,
> > > > > > > > I'm highly doubtful that someone's going to spare the
> > > international
> > > > > > > expence
> > > > > > > > to call me in Australia.  And even if someone from Yahoo
> > Australia
> > > > > calls
> > > > > > > > me, what if I live somewhere where there is no local
yahoo
> > branch?
> > > > > > > someone
> > > > > > > > will still have to call me, and I wonder how bothered
> > they'll be
> > > to do
> > > > > > > > that?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So what to do?  Firstly, give yahoo a hard time about
it,
> > both the
> > > > > main
> > > > > > > > yahoo in the USA and any local affiliates (e.g. yahoo
UK,
> > yahoo
> > > Japan,
> > > > > > > > yahoo Australia, etc).  I'd suggest boycotting them
> > altogether,
> > > but I
> > > > > > > > realise that's not always possible.  I'd also urge any
group
> > > > > moderators to
> > > > > > > > stop using any of the features requiring a yahoo ID
until
> > this is
> > > > > > > resolved.
> > > > > > > > If you're a member of a yahoo group, ask your list
moderator
> > not
> > > to
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > of these features, as you as a blind person won't be
able to
> > > access
> > > > > them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The yahoo signup page also says that the word
verification
> > > technology
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > developed in conjunction with the Captcha project (note
the
> > > spelling)
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > Carnegie Mellon University.  So I think we should give
these
> > > people a
> > > > > hard
> > > > > > > > time too.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Geoff.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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