anti-word

Sun Jan 13 15:21:03 EST 2002

Absolutely Greg and very eloquently expressed.

Amanda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1 at uic.edu>
To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: anti-word

> Janina,
> First of all, we are not talking about publication (or at least I'm not in
the sense of the word). Also, by taking upon your self the conversion of
word documents into plain text, I feel that you are not only encouraging but
also supporting the very thing you and the rest of us disscussing here are
against.
> If you want to teach a bird to find its own food, you won't feed it
continually, you will let it out the window or whatever so that it can
learn.
> Greg
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 02:47:47PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Greg, I run into this all the time. Since I'm the minority--the non-word
> > user--I take it upon myself to translate the contents into something I
can
> > read, and usually don't bother the sendor about it unless they send me
> > something that just doesn't translate well. That's my usual approach.
> >
> > If, the document in question is meant for publication as opposed to
> > something that passes between two or three people, then it's a very
> > different story. Then they don't get to be ignorant in my view. But, as
I
> > said, that's another story. I didn't think we were talking about
> > publication.
> >
> >  On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I do. However, you seem to be missing the point I'm trying to get
across here. So, let me give you an example.
> > > A professor of mine was handing out something that he had written for
the class. Since I knew that he had written it by himself recently, I asked
if he could e-mail me a plain text file instead, so I wouldn't need to mess
with scannning the handout. His answer to me was: "you mean a word
document?" I said "no, I mean a .txt file, a plain ASCII text file." He was
still confused, so I said, "like the files that you create with notepad." He
said "oh, ok."
> > >
> > > My point is as it was before. If all they know about their computer is
how to turn it on and off, then how are they supposed to know about other
platforms if they don't even know for sure what a text file?
> > >
> > > If some of you on this list want to blame the ignorant professor, then
maybe you should blame universities, employers, and the way we learn and
work today. Universities and employers are the ones today who tell you they
want your papers in 12 point font, and formatted this way or that. Now, how
are we supposed to achieve that in something like notepad/emacs/pico? And if
someone else is wondering how the hell this guy became a professor without
knowing crap about what kinds of files he could produce on his computer,
then that is a new question to examine the answer to.
> > > Greg
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:29:50PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Gregory, I keep telling you this answer, but there's some part of it
that
> > > > you seem to still miss. What part is that?
> > > >
> > > > They don't need to know a damm thing to retrieve either a text doc
(no
> > > > formatting), or an html doc (much formatting).
> > > >
> > > > They need know nothing special in order to do that. Do you
understand this
> > > > yet?
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And how do you expect them to know about the other platforms if
all they know about their windows computer is how to turn it on and off?
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:17:03PM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> > > > > > Hello Amanda, Janina and other interested listers,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >          Well, looks like the world of advocacy is impinging on
planet
> > > > > > Linux.  It is correct to point out that in the ideal there
should not be a
> > > > > > word processing standard imposed by a company, but as we all
know, the
> > > > > > sender of a word file getting a text file back might not see the
world in
> > > > > > the same way.  Don't you just hate it when that happens.  Smile.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >          I guess my view is that if word users want to
communicate with
> > > > > > those who don't use word, then they have to adjust to the
realities of
> > > > > > other computer platforms.  Consumer choice still has it's place!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Charlie Crawford.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 11:09 AM 01/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > > >Amen! to that Janina!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Amanda
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina at afb.net>
> > > > > > >To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > > > >Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 11:06 AM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: anti-word
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes and if a word document is sent to you for your input
and editing,
> > > > > > >I'm
> > > > > > > > > sure the original party would expect the thing to come
back in Word
> > > > > > >format
> > > > > > > > > along with the built-in formatting, styles and such.  Some
of this whole
> > > > > > > > > anti Word sounds arogant to me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I rather think it arrogant to presume everyone wants and
reads Word. I
> > > > > > > > regard it as arrogant to presume we all pay tribute to
Microsoft. I
> > > > > > > > further regard it arrogant to treat a proprietary,
non-consensus, file
> > > > > > > > format as some kind of standard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > Technology Research and Development
> > > > Governmental Relations Group
> > > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > >
> > > > Email: janina at afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > >
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Speakup mailing list
> > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Speakup mailing list
> > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Janina Sajka, Director
> > Technology Research and Development
> > Governmental Relations Group
> > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina at afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
> _______________________________________________
> Speakup mailing list
> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
>
>