anti-word

Janina Sajka janina at afb.net
Sun Jan 13 15:19:41 EST 2002 

Ah, OK, I think I understand where you're coming from on this a bit better 
now.

It took me a long time in life to come around to the understanding that I 
couldn't possibly fight all battles. If for no other reason than that it 
is very time consuming to do so. So, I try to choose my battles in such a 
way as to leverage my time for greater effect in the campaign. 

A pro pos this discussion, to me this means that I can't educate each and 
every person I interact with one at a time. I think you'd agree with me 
that I have more impact for the good by focusing on things like the 
NISO/DAISY digital talking book standard, and on getting the textbook 
publishing industry to agree to use it meeting their obligations to make 
textbooks accessible. Would you agree with this prioritization?

If then it follows that I can't stop and deal with every comer, I must be 
ready to do some of my own conversions.


 On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:

> Janina,
> First of all, we are not talking about publication (or at least I'm not in the sense of the word). Also, by taking upon your self the conversion of word documents into plain text, I feel that you are not only encouraging but also supporting the very thing you and the rest of us disscussing here are against.
> If you want to teach a bird to find its own food, you won't feed it continually, you will let it out the window or whatever so that it can learn.
> Greg
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 02:47:47PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Greg, I run into this all the time. Since I'm the minority--the non-word 
> > user--I take it upon myself to translate the contents into something I can 
> > read, and usually don't bother the sendor about it unless they send me 
> > something that just doesn't translate well. That's my usual approach.
> > 
> > If, the document in question is meant for publication as opposed to 
> > something that passes between two or three people, then it's a very 
> > different story. Then they don't get to be ignorant in my view. But, as I 
> > said, that's another story. I didn't think we were talking about 
> > publication.
> > 
> >  On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > 
> > > Yes, I do. However, you seem to be missing the point I'm trying to get across here. So, let me give you an example.
> > > A professor of mine was handing out something that he had written for the class. Since I knew that he had written it by himself recently, I asked if he could e-mail me a plain text file instead, so I wouldn't need to mess with scannning the handout. His answer to me was: "you mean a word document?" I said "no, I mean a .txt file, a plain ASCII text file." He was still confused, so I said, "like the files that you create with notepad." He said "oh, ok."
> > > 
> > > My point is as it was before. If all they know about their computer is how to turn it on and off, then how are they supposed to know about other platforms if they don't even know for sure what a text file?
> > > 
> > > If some of you on this list want to blame the ignorant professor, then maybe you should blame universities, employers, and the way we learn and work today. Universities and employers are the ones today who tell you they want your papers in 12 point font, and formatted this way or that. Now, how are we supposed to achieve that in something like notepad/emacs/pico? And if someone else is wondering how the hell this guy became a professor without knowing crap about what kinds of files he could produce on his computer, then that is a new question to examine the answer to.
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:29:50PM -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Gregory, I keep telling you this answer, but there's some part of it that 
> > > > you seem to still miss. What part is that?
> > > > 
> > > > They don't need to know a damm thing to retrieve either a text doc (no 
> > > > formatting), or an html doc (much formatting).
> > > > 
> > > > They need know nothing special in order to do that. Do you understand this 
> > > > yet?
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > And how do you expect them to know about the other platforms if all they know about their windows computer is how to turn it on and off?
> > > > > Greg
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 13, 2002 at 12:17:03PM -0500, Charles Crawford wrote:
> > > > > > Hello Amanda, Janina and other interested listers,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >          Well, looks like the world of advocacy is impinging on planet 
> > > > > > Linux.  It is correct to point out that in the ideal there should not be a 
> > > > > > word processing standard imposed by a company, but as we all know, the 
> > > > > > sender of a word file getting a text file back might not see the world in 
> > > > > > the same way.  Don't you just hate it when that happens.  Smile.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >          I guess my view is that if word users want to communicate with 
> > > > > > those who don't use word, then they have to adjust to the realities of 
> > > > > > other computer platforms.  Consumer choice still has it's place!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -- Charlie Crawford.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > At 11:09 AM 01/13/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > > >Amen! to that Janina!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Amanda
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > >From: "Janina Sajka" <janina at afb.net>
> > > > > > >To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > > > >Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 11:06 AM
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: anti-word
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 12 Jan 2002, Steve Holmes wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes and if a word document is sent to you for your input and editing,
> > > > > > >I'm
> > > > > > > > > sure the original party would expect the thing to come back in Word
> > > > > > >format
> > > > > > > > > along with the built-in formatting, styles and such.  Some of this whole
> > > > > > > > > anti Word sounds arogant to me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I rather think it arrogant to presume everyone wants and reads Word. I
> > > > > > > > regard it as arrogant to presume we all pay tribute to Microsoft. I
> > > > > > > > further regard it arrogant to treat a proprietary, non-consensus, file
> > > > > > > > format as some kind of standard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > 	
> > > > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > > > 				Technology Research and Development
> > > > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > > > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > > > 
> > > > Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > > > 
> > > > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > > > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > > > http://www.openebook.org
> > > > 
> > > > 
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> > > 
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> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 	
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > 
> > Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> > 
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Speakup mailing list
> > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
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> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina at afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

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