some networking questions, I'm slightly confused
Gregory Nowak
gnowak1 at uic.edu
Mon Dec 10 14:40:05 EST 2001
Yes, this is a large building (900 units or so).
Like I said, it is directly fed by the phone company, and has its own switching office for all the
units in the basement.
Greg
On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 01:39:42PM -0500, Rich Caloggero wrote:
> OK, maybe this makes more sense to me now... If your dealing with a large
> building then the pipe which comes into the building better be "large
> enough" to handle the entire building. This is most likely T1 or bigger
> pipe. When dealing with phone lines coming into a house, for example, they
> have already been branched off of the big trunk probably well before the
> telephone pole on your block, and usually will only handle a few lines so
> don't need to be very large in terms of band width.
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1 at uic.edu>
> To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: some networking questions, I'm slightly confused
>
>
> > As far as I know, the actual t1 line comes into the phone equipment which
> is in the basement (in fact, the entire central
> > switching office for this building is there). Then, as I understand it,
> the digital signals
> > for the t1 ride on the same cat5 wires
> > in this building as the phone signals.
> > If you just want to plug a phone in, you don't need anything
> > between it and the jacks which are all standard rj11.
> > If you have the internet service, you plug this box into the rj11,
> > and it has an rj45 on it which hooks up to your nic.
> > Like I said, I'll try to find out exactly what this is called and how
> > to get more info on it.
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 06:19:18AM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > > Hi Gregory,
> > >
> > > If it is a T1 line, it needs two pieces of equipment, which may actually
> be
> > > built into a single device. First, there is the CSU/DSU, which is like
> a
> > > modem for dedicated lines. It is not, of course, a modem, but that is
> its
> > > metaphorical function in the dedicated environment. It handles the line
> > > coding, framing, signaling, etc. Then there is some kind of protocol
> > > router. This is, of course, usually a router for the IP
> > > protocols. Perhaps, the device you're talking about is a combo CSU/DSU
> and
> > > router; though I know of no such device manufactured by HP.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > At 08:32 PM 12/9/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >I'm not sure how it is possible, but it is.
> > > >I can find out more details.
> > > >This is not cable or dsl, it is t1.
> > > >Greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 07:24:53PM -0500, Rich Caloggero wrote:
> > > > > Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > >They're running t1 over here through this HP networking gizmo that
> > > > > >plugs into the phone jack, and has an rj45 jack on it.
> > > > > How is this possible? How can you run T1 over a phone line, unless
> perhaps
> > > > > it were some dedicated phone line, in which case its usually termed
> DSL for
> > > > > dedicated subscriber line. Normal phone lines just don't have the
> bandwidth
> > > > > to do this. I assume the other side of this box is a standard
> ethernet
> > > > port?
> > > > > We have such a box here at my house: one end plugs into a cable
> modem and
> > > > > the other has 4 ethernet ports which go to each of four computers.
> We all
> > > > > thus share the same cable connection. Its awesome!
> > > > >
> > > > > Rich
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Gregory Nowak" <gnowak1 at uic.edu>
> > > > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca>
> > > > > Sent: 06 December, 2001 10:52 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: some networking questions, I'm slightly confused
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In kernel 2.4.16.
> > > > > Greg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 07:56:42PM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Gregory,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On which Kernel version's source tree are you finding this
> > > > information? I
> > > > > > do not find it in 2.4.6.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 08:44 PM 12/6/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > > > >I am trying to do something like serial line load balancing, but
> with
> > > > > nics.
> > > > > > >It is described in
> /usr/src/linux/Documentation/networking/bonding.txt
> > > > > > >.
> > > > > > >Greg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 07:11:14PM -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Greg,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmmm, this talk about bonding I am not understanding... Are
> you
> > > > > trying to
> > > > > > > > multihome with two different service providers? Please
> advise; I'm
> > > > > > > > apparently missing something.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At 12:17 PM 12/6/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > >Yes, sort of.
> > > > > > > > >I'll have to talk to the guy running the service here when he
> gives
> > > > > me my
> > > > > > > > >second
> > > > > > > > >connection, and see if I'll get another ip address or not,
> and if he
> > > > > > > knows
> > > > > > > > >if his router will support bonding.
> > > > > > > > >Greg
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 10:00:36PM -0700, Darrell Shandrow
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Greg,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good deal; I'll be glad to do what I can to help,
> especially with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > specific implementation. Did you get your answers
> regarding the
> > > > > > > two NICs
> > > > > > > > > > and the outside addressing?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > At 09:56 PM 12/5/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for the info even though I knew 99% of that.
> > > > > > > > > > >I will be in touch if I need more help.
> > > > > > > > > > >Again, thanks for a very good explanation (it's certainly
> better
> > > > > > > then I
> > > > > > > > > > >could've done (grin)).
> > > > > > > > > > >Greg
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 08:19:57PM -0700, Darrell
> Shandrow
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Greg,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have stayed out of this until now because I haven't
> really
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > > > any time
> > > > > > > > > > > > to respond properly. My days are usually quite long
> > > > > > > > > lately. Anyhow, I am
> > > > > > > > > > > > a sys admin for a regional ISP; perhaps, I can help
> you.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > A domain is registered through a registrar like
> Network
> > > > > > > Solutions or
> > > > > > > > > > > > register.com. When the domain is registered, part of
> the
> > > > > required
> > > > > > > > > > > > information includes the IP addresses for the primary
> and
> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > > name
> > > > > > > > > > > > servers. This information is then added to what are
> known as
> > > > > > > the root
> > > > > > > > > > > > servers, which tell the entire world which primary and
> > > > > > > secondary name
> > > > > > > > > > > > servers know how to answer lookup questions about your
> > > > domain.
> > > > > In
> > > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > > words, the root servers delegate authority to the
> specified
> > > > > > > primary and
> > > > > > > > > > > > secondary name servers to answer questions concerning
> your
> > > > > domain
> > > > > > > > > > > > name. You could run one or both of these name servers
> > > > > yourself
> > > > > > > or have
> > > > > > > > > > > > someone else do DNS. It sounds like you are having
> someone
> > > > > else do
> > > > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > > > > > > > and secondary DNS. As I'm sure you already know, DNS
> is the
> > > > > > > domain
> > > > > > > > > name
> > > > > > > > > > > > system, which points domain names to IP addresses, and
> which
> > > > > > > allows
> > > > > > > > > us to
> > > > > > > > > > > > do neat things like browse to www.foxnews.com and send
> > > > mail to
> > > > > > > > > > > > nu7i at azboss.net instead of having to know all kinds of
> awful
> > > > > IP
> > > > > > > > > addresses
> > > > > > > > > > > > just to perform the simplest of functions on the
> Internet.
> > > > > So,
> > > > > > > DNS
> > > > > > > > > points
> > > > > > > > > > > > a domain name to an IP address, but how does it work?
> DNS
> > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > > about a domain name is handled by name servers in the
> form of
> > > > > zone
> > > > > > > > > > > > files. Your domain exists as a zone file on the
> primary name
> > > > > > > > > server, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > the secondary name server is usually set up as a slave
> to the
> > > > > > > > > primary. In
> > > > > > > > > > > > other words, the secondary name server gets its
> information
> > > > > > > (the zone
> > > > > > > > > > > file)
> > > > > > > > > > > > from the primary name server and holds onto it, just
> in case
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > > > > > > > name server is unavailable for some reason. The
> domain name
> > > > > > > system is
> > > > > > > > > > > > really a very large, world wide distributed database.
> A
> > > > > domain
> > > > > > > name
> > > > > > > > > > > > contains various types of information which is managed
> in the
> > > > > > > form of
> > > > > > > > > > > > various types of records. The first type of record is
> SOA,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > stands
> > > > > > > > > > > > for start of authority. This just specifies your
> primary and
> > > > > > > secondary
> > > > > > > > > > > > name servers. You see, if things were set up a
> certain way,
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > > > primary
> > > > > > > > > > > > and secondary name servers could actually delegate
> authority
> > > > > > > for your
> > > > > > > > > > > > domain to still other name servers, but this is not
> common
> > > > > > > > > > > > practice. Another important record type is the A
> record.
> > > > > This
> > > > > > > is the
> > > > > > > > > > > > address record, and your domain could have multiple A
> > > > records,
> > > > > > > > > > > depending on
> > > > > > > > > > > > how many subdomains you have set up. For example my
> domain
> > > > > name
> > > > > > > > > servers
> > > > > > > > > > > > have an A record for shandrow.com which points to
> > > > > > > > > > > 206.124.184.77. There is
> > > > > > > > > > > > also another A record for borg.shandrow.com, a
> subdomain,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > > happens to point to the same IP address, though it
> could just
> > > > > > > as easily
> > > > > > > > > > > > point to another IP address. Another somewhat related
> record
> > > > > > > type is a
> > > > > > > > > > > > CNAME, which stands for canonical name. These records
> are
> > > > > used
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > > aliases to point subdomains to other domains. For
> example, I
> > > > > > > did use a
> > > > > > > > > > > > CNAME record to point www.shandrow.com to
> shandrow.com, which
> > > > > > > means it
> > > > > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > > has the IP address 206.124.184.77. Yet another
> important
> > > > > record
> > > > > > > > > type is
> > > > > > > > > > > > the MX record. MX stands for mail exchanger. E-mail
> > > > software
> > > > > > > uses
> > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > records when figuring out how to deliver e-mail on the
> > > > > > > Internet. These
> > > > > > > > > > > > records, numbered by priority, tell mail delivery
> software
> > > > > > > where mail
> > > > > > > > > > > > should go when destined for a particular domain. For
> > > > example,
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > first MX
> > > > > > > > > > > > record priority for shandrow.com (which is MX 10)
> points to
> > > > > > > > > > > > borg.shandrow.com. That is ultimately pointing to the
> > > > > Sendmail
> > > > > > > server
> > > > > > > > > > > > which runs on the IP address 206.124.184.77. But,
> again,
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > could have
> > > > > > > > > > > > just as easily pointed to any Sendmail server which
> was
> > > > > > > configured to
> > > > > > > > > > > > accept and deliver mail for the shandrow.com domain.
> > > > > Additional MX
> > > > > > > > > > > records
> > > > > > > > > > > > can be defined so that, if the server specified in the
> first
> > > > > > > > > priority MX
> > > > > > > > > > > > record is unavailable for some reason, mail delivery
> software
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > try a
> > > > > > > > > > > > second, third, fourth and so on server until it can
> deliver
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mail. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > could, if configured properly, have a MX 20 pointing
> > > > > shandrow.com
> > > > > > > > > to yet
> > > > > > > > > > > > another Sendmail server, which would be able to
> receive mail
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > shandrow.com in the absence of the primary mail
> server.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, there is reverse DNS. This does the reverse
> of the
> > > > > > > domain
> > > > > > > > > name
> > > > > > > > > > > > system; it translates IP addresses back to domain
> names. You
> > > > > > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > > > > > > want to have your DNS administrator set this up for
> your
> > > > > domain,
> > > > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > > > certain FTP sites, web sites and other types of
> services on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Internet
> > > > > > > > > > > > use reverse DNS information for security purposes;
> they want
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > your forward DNS and reverse DNS point to the same
> place, or
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > may also
> > > > > > > > > > > > want to verify that you have a domain which is or is
> not
> > > > > > > registered
> > > > > > > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > > > > certain part of the world. In my example, performing
> a
> > > > > > > nslookup on
> > > > > > > > > the IP
> > > > > > > > > > > > address 206.124.184.77 will tell you that it reverses
> to
> > > > > > > > > > > borg.shandrow.com,
> > > > > > > > > > > > which is a valid subdomain pointing to that same IP
> address.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyhow, this will either help you or confuse you.
> Please let
> > > > > me
> > > > > > > > > know if I
> > > > > > > > > > > > can help you with specifics.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:38 PM 12/5/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Well, I'll actually be running a mail server for the
> > > > building
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > > > > > I live.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Instead of being regularly payed, my current
> connection will
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > free, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I'll get a second free connection
> > > > > > > > > > > > >They're running t1 over here through this HP
> networking
> > > > gizmo
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > >plugs into the phone jack, and has an rj45 jack on
> it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >The reason I'm asking about the dns stuff is because
> > > > > > > > > > > > >when I told the guy that I've looked at the mail
> admin docs,
> > > > > > > and am
> > > > > > > > > > > > >seriously considering running the server,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >his response to me was:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >"so, I'll need to get you a domain with primary and
> > > > secondary
> > > > > dns
> > > > > > > > > > > servers."
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I said yes to this, but am carious about how his dns
> servers
> > > > > > > will know
> > > > > > > > > > > > >where I exist
> > > > > > > > > > > > >since he didn't ask for the name of my box.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I guess when he tells me he's got things set up,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >my first question to him will be,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >"what name do the dns servers know my machine by?"
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >He's macroslop licensed, but not meaning to brag,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I get the impression that I may know more then he
> does
> > > > > without a
> > > > > > > > > license.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >In case some of you reading my post now are
> remembering
> > > > a few
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > my other
> > > > > > > > > > > > >posts, I decided
> > > > > > > > > > > > >that getting my own domain name wasn't worth it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >He said that I could run a small web server here if I
> want.
> > > > > So, I
> > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > > > > >think he'd
> > > > > > > > > > > > >have a problem with me running it as
> http://mybox.domain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >This whole thing started when I got my service, and
> he came
> > > > > > > here to
> > > > > > > > > > > get it
> > > > > > > > > > > > >all setup.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Not only was he impressed that I was the only one in
> the
> > > > > building
> > > > > > > > > so far
> > > > > > > > > > > > >running anything other then windblows, but that it
> was
> > > > Linux.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >After my configuring tcp/ip both in windows and in
> Linux
> > > > > while
> > > > > > > he just
> > > > > > > > > > > > >watched me do it and gave me my ip address and all
> the other
> > > > > > > stuff,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I asked if I would get a mail account.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >He said no, because there is no body to run one yet.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Then he tentatively asked if I would be willing to
> > > > perhaps do
> > > > > it,
> > > > > > > > > I said
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I'd read the mailadmin docs and think about it,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >and you know the rest.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >He's also looking to hire someone to run apachee.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >But, I'm not touching that for now (grin).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Sorry for the long and personal post, but since Geoff
> asked,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I figured that some other people on this list may be
> > > > > wondering
> > > > > > > > > > > > >why I'm asking theese questions, some of which may
> sound
> > > > > > > > > > > > >dumb, but are for the most part so that I could make
> sure
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I know is actually correct.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >Greg
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 09:29:48AM +1000, Geoff Shang
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Gregory Nowak wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Say there is a primary and secondary dns
> servers
> > > > on a
> > > > > > > domain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > called mydomain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Say also that there is a machine called mybox.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, I have ip addresses for primary and
> secondary dns
> > > > > > > > > servers on
> > > > > > > > > > > > > mydomain.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assumming all of the above, and assuming that I
> have
> > > > > > > > > permission to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > officially be on mydomain which is a valid internet
> domain,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what do I do on mybox so that it would be
> resolvable
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as mybox.mydomain on the net?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing. It's the primary and secondary DNS
> servers that
> > > > > > > control
> > > > > > > > > > > how your
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > host is resolved, not your box. As long as mybox
> has the
> > > > > IP
> > > > > > > > > > > address that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ns1.mydomain.com and ns2.mydomain.com think it
> has, you
> > > > > > > should be
> > > > > > > > > > > good to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > go.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Say that I have to nics with 2 static ip
> address for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > outside
> > > > > > > > > > > > > world.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do I set things up so that my box would use
> both
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nics for outside access instead just either one
> nic or
> > > > > > > the other?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Chris said, what comes in where will depend on
> what
> > > > > > > address it
> > > > > > > > > > > is sent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to. What goes out where depends on a few things.
> If you
> > > > > > > want to
> > > > > > > > > > > use one
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > interface to access a particular host or network,
> you can
> > > > > > > set up a
> > > > > > > > > > > route
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > accordingly. If you want to access everything
> with both,
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > might
> > > > > > > > > > > be able
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to put 2 default routes (i've seen it done but
> don't know
> > > > > if it
> > > > > > > > > > > works and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > if it's supposed to work). I saw you've been
> looking at
> > > > > > > > > bonding which
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > might also work, but I don't know about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I ask, why you have 2 NICs? Is it just to get
> 2
> > > > > > > addresses or
> > > > > > > > > > > are you
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > connected to 2 networks?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Geoff.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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